Teens want to be treated like adults...IF it suits them
Oh, I just loooove this. I read this in the news today about something that happened in Edmonton awhile back, and thought the stupidity is over and done with, but looks like good stupidity dies hard.
Quick recount: Few kids hang out at West Edmonton Mall, get a girl to 'come to a party' and I believe one of the people actually knew the victim as a friend. They go to a golf course where the gang rapes and murders the teen (13 year old Nina Courtepatte) and then get caught and tried. I believe one was acquitted and others got limited from murder to manslaughter.
Now for the stomach turning (at least in my mind) part. One of the girls and the guy being sentenced are saying that they want to be treated as youths for the sentencing, not as adults, since they were youths at the time, though just barely under the line since they are 17 now. Is this because they didn't know their actions? is this because they were coerced by much older more violent criminals to do the deed (as in, 'join us to kill this girl or else we will kill you')? NO, the simple and bare answer is that they are looking for lenient punishment. The guy, who pleaded to first degree murder, "If sentenced as as an adult, he would face an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years in prison. If sentenced as a youth, however, the maximum would be 10 years, of which no more than six could be in custody." As for the girl, convicted of manslaughter, if "..sentenced as an adult, she could face a life sentence, but as a young person the maximum would be three years."
How many times have you heard the teens screaming out "treat me like an adult! I am an adult! leave me alone and let me make my own mind up cause I am an adult!"? I mean, recently we had two girls here in Edmonton fight for teens to vote in a civic election (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/05/14/teenvote_20040514.html), to which they lost but still had the option to take it to the supreme court of Canada. Teens want the chance to pick out their own clothes, pick their own friends, have all the luxuries the world can provide and then when the crap hits the fan, look to mom/dad or other things to bail them out.
Granted, ALL teens are not like that. There are a few bad apples in the bunch and you can't broad stroke them all. I mean, I know as a teen I was hardly in trouble, told the truth and studied in school, and I was treated with all the dignity that went with that growing up. Ostrasized, snubbed, picked on and called names by most of my peers in school but praised and patted on the back by teachers and parents alike. I just can not stand when teens scream independance and then bad apples bring it down.
If I had control, I would say abolish the Young Offenders Act, or whatever the hell they are calling that 'wrist slapping cause s/he is a baby' Act these days. Laws are here to protect people, punishments are here to teach them that breaking laws is not a good thing. What exactly is the justice system teaching kids when we show them "oh, you are under 16? ok, kill that person, we are fine with it cause when we take ice cream away from you for 6 months you will learn and when you are an adult you will smarten up". This justice system is teaching kids that they can get away with things and have a 'get out of jail free' card right up to a certain age. Case in point, the 13 year old girl in Medicine Hat that participated in the murder of her family with her 23 year old boyfriend (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070703/alta_trial_070703?s_name=&no_ads=) You don't think in the back of her mind she was thinking that she was immune to the punishment because of her age? Interesting how the article notes at the end how she "..looked much like a normal teen during her testimony, as opposed to the "goth" look she had at the time of the killings." Interesting huh? the teens are learning to work the system, make it seem like they are victims instead of the criminals. I mean, if an adult was manipulating the court/justice system like that the judge would laugh their act out of court and slap them with high punishment (which these days seems to be a slap on the pee pee and a 'dont do it again' but that is another story), but when a kid does it these adults who seem to think that all teens are innocent babes led astray get up in arms.
Stop treating teens as teens, adults as adults..instead, let's treat them as they are. Law abiding citizens as law abiding citizens, criminals as criminals. Forget the age, forget the gender, forget the colour of their skin or religion that they follow. Pure and simple. You know the rules, they are not that hard to learn. Common courtesy. Don't kill, Don't steal, Don't Lie, Don't Cheat. I mean, with those 4 laws to go by, how can you do harm? And for those that say "well, if a 12 year old has been raised knowing that it is alright to steal how can you blame them when they steal at 12?". If that is the case, then how can you blame a 19 year old for stealing cars if they were taught that it was alright to steal? Basic child raising. Any parent that can raise a child will tell you, child behaves badly, devise a form of time out or punishment. Consider jail to be a really BIG time out. You steal a chocolate bar, ok, consider that to be a case for your parents to decide unless charges are laid, and maybe a grounding for 1 week. You kill a human, consider that a BIG time out in the gov't care where they make sure you behave and learn that killing humans is not a good thing, regardless of how old you or they are and whether you did it for malice or for kicks.
Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying bring back corporal or capital punishments, cause even I know that there is a line to be drawn in punishing and teaching people not to hit others by beating them, or teaching them not to kill others by killing them, is just way to messed up even for my mind to fathom. All I am saying is treat the criminals as criminals, law abiders by law abiders and dont consider age or gender to be a factor. Put these two murders away for life and maybe then we can send the message that killing, no matter how old you are, is not right.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070716/Courtepatte_sentencing_070716/20070716?hub=Canada
Convicted teens seek to avoid adult sentences
Updated Mon. Jul. 16 2007 5:30 PM ET
Canadian Press
EDMONTON -- Two teenagers convicted in the sexual assault and beating death of a 13-year-old Edmonton girl are going to court in an attempt to make it harder for them to be given adult sentences.
A sentencing hearing for a woman who was 17 when she participated in the murder of Nina Courtepatte was delayed Monday until court can hear the arguments.
Defence lawyer Colleen Connolly said she will challenge the constitutionality of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, arguing that it should be up to the Crown to prove that young offenders charged with serious crimes should be sentenced as adults. The current law puts the onus on the defence to prove they should be sentenced as youths.
"To be sentenced as a young offender, the defence has to make an application and they have to establish to the court's satisfaction that this particular young person should be sentenced as a young person," Connolly explained.
"That's constitutionally unsound. That's an infringement of the young person's rights."
Another offender, who has already pleaded guilty to first-degree murder in the horrific assault, is expected to make similar arguments next Monday. He, too, was a youth at the time of the crime.
If sentenced as as an adult, he would face an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years in prison. If sentenced as a youth, however, the maximum would be 10 years, of which no more than six could be in custody.
The woman, who was convicted by a judge of manslaughter, is to be back in court Aug. 3 -- after a decision is expected in the young man's case.
If sentenced as an adult, she could face a life sentence, but as a young person the maximum would be three years.
In addition to facing more severe penalties, young people sentenced as adults also can be publicly identified once all avenues of appeal are exhausted.
The challenges will not affect the convictions, but hearings to decide how the offender will be sentenced will still have to be held.
Connolly said that since her client was under 18 at the time of the offence, she should benefit from legal provisions taking into account that young people may not be mature enough to make fully responsible decisions.The young woman is one of five people charged in Nina's death in April 2005. She and her friend were lured to the fairway of an Edmonton-area golf course on the pretext of attending a bush party, but once they arrived, Nina was raped twice and beaten to death.
The young man who is also going to argue his sentencing options pleaded guilty last December.
Last spring, Joseph Laboucan of Fort St. John, B.C., was convicted of the same crime, but his co-accused Michael Briscoe of Edmonton was acquitted.
The trial of a second teenaged girl was delayed when she fired her lawyer on what was supposed to be the opening day of her trial.
Laboucan is appealing his conviction, while the Crown is appealing Briscoe's acquittal.
Evidence presented at the Laboucan-Briscoe trial was horrific in its brutality. It also exposed an ugly underside of youth culture, with tales of so-called "mall rats" drifting from dine-and-dash jobs in fast-food restaurants to having sex in parking lots and dabbling in the occult.
Quick recount: Few kids hang out at West Edmonton Mall, get a girl to 'come to a party' and I believe one of the people actually knew the victim as a friend. They go to a golf course where the gang rapes and murders the teen (13 year old Nina Courtepatte) and then get caught and tried. I believe one was acquitted and others got limited from murder to manslaughter.
Now for the stomach turning (at least in my mind) part. One of the girls and the guy being sentenced are saying that they want to be treated as youths for the sentencing, not as adults, since they were youths at the time, though just barely under the line since they are 17 now. Is this because they didn't know their actions? is this because they were coerced by much older more violent criminals to do the deed (as in, 'join us to kill this girl or else we will kill you')? NO, the simple and bare answer is that they are looking for lenient punishment. The guy, who pleaded to first degree murder, "If sentenced as as an adult, he would face an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years in prison. If sentenced as a youth, however, the maximum would be 10 years, of which no more than six could be in custody." As for the girl, convicted of manslaughter, if "..sentenced as an adult, she could face a life sentence, but as a young person the maximum would be three years."
How many times have you heard the teens screaming out "treat me like an adult! I am an adult! leave me alone and let me make my own mind up cause I am an adult!"? I mean, recently we had two girls here in Edmonton fight for teens to vote in a civic election (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/05/14/teenvote_20040514.html), to which they lost but still had the option to take it to the supreme court of Canada. Teens want the chance to pick out their own clothes, pick their own friends, have all the luxuries the world can provide and then when the crap hits the fan, look to mom/dad or other things to bail them out.
Granted, ALL teens are not like that. There are a few bad apples in the bunch and you can't broad stroke them all. I mean, I know as a teen I was hardly in trouble, told the truth and studied in school, and I was treated with all the dignity that went with that growing up. Ostrasized, snubbed, picked on and called names by most of my peers in school but praised and patted on the back by teachers and parents alike. I just can not stand when teens scream independance and then bad apples bring it down.
If I had control, I would say abolish the Young Offenders Act, or whatever the hell they are calling that 'wrist slapping cause s/he is a baby' Act these days. Laws are here to protect people, punishments are here to teach them that breaking laws is not a good thing. What exactly is the justice system teaching kids when we show them "oh, you are under 16? ok, kill that person, we are fine with it cause when we take ice cream away from you for 6 months you will learn and when you are an adult you will smarten up". This justice system is teaching kids that they can get away with things and have a 'get out of jail free' card right up to a certain age. Case in point, the 13 year old girl in Medicine Hat that participated in the murder of her family with her 23 year old boyfriend (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070703/alta_trial_070703?s_name=&no_ads=) You don't think in the back of her mind she was thinking that she was immune to the punishment because of her age? Interesting how the article notes at the end how she "..looked much like a normal teen during her testimony, as opposed to the "goth" look she had at the time of the killings." Interesting huh? the teens are learning to work the system, make it seem like they are victims instead of the criminals. I mean, if an adult was manipulating the court/justice system like that the judge would laugh their act out of court and slap them with high punishment (which these days seems to be a slap on the pee pee and a 'dont do it again' but that is another story), but when a kid does it these adults who seem to think that all teens are innocent babes led astray get up in arms.
Stop treating teens as teens, adults as adults..instead, let's treat them as they are. Law abiding citizens as law abiding citizens, criminals as criminals. Forget the age, forget the gender, forget the colour of their skin or religion that they follow. Pure and simple. You know the rules, they are not that hard to learn. Common courtesy. Don't kill, Don't steal, Don't Lie, Don't Cheat. I mean, with those 4 laws to go by, how can you do harm? And for those that say "well, if a 12 year old has been raised knowing that it is alright to steal how can you blame them when they steal at 12?". If that is the case, then how can you blame a 19 year old for stealing cars if they were taught that it was alright to steal? Basic child raising. Any parent that can raise a child will tell you, child behaves badly, devise a form of time out or punishment. Consider jail to be a really BIG time out. You steal a chocolate bar, ok, consider that to be a case for your parents to decide unless charges are laid, and maybe a grounding for 1 week. You kill a human, consider that a BIG time out in the gov't care where they make sure you behave and learn that killing humans is not a good thing, regardless of how old you or they are and whether you did it for malice or for kicks.
Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying bring back corporal or capital punishments, cause even I know that there is a line to be drawn in punishing and teaching people not to hit others by beating them, or teaching them not to kill others by killing them, is just way to messed up even for my mind to fathom. All I am saying is treat the criminals as criminals, law abiders by law abiders and dont consider age or gender to be a factor. Put these two murders away for life and maybe then we can send the message that killing, no matter how old you are, is not right.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070716/Courtepatte_sentencing_070716/20070716?hub=Canada
Convicted teens seek to avoid adult sentences
Updated Mon. Jul. 16 2007 5:30 PM ET
Canadian Press
EDMONTON -- Two teenagers convicted in the sexual assault and beating death of a 13-year-old Edmonton girl are going to court in an attempt to make it harder for them to be given adult sentences.
A sentencing hearing for a woman who was 17 when she participated in the murder of Nina Courtepatte was delayed Monday until court can hear the arguments.
Defence lawyer Colleen Connolly said she will challenge the constitutionality of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, arguing that it should be up to the Crown to prove that young offenders charged with serious crimes should be sentenced as adults. The current law puts the onus on the defence to prove they should be sentenced as youths.
"To be sentenced as a young offender, the defence has to make an application and they have to establish to the court's satisfaction that this particular young person should be sentenced as a young person," Connolly explained.
"That's constitutionally unsound. That's an infringement of the young person's rights."
Another offender, who has already pleaded guilty to first-degree murder in the horrific assault, is expected to make similar arguments next Monday. He, too, was a youth at the time of the crime.
If sentenced as as an adult, he would face an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole for 25 years in prison. If sentenced as a youth, however, the maximum would be 10 years, of which no more than six could be in custody.
The woman, who was convicted by a judge of manslaughter, is to be back in court Aug. 3 -- after a decision is expected in the young man's case.
If sentenced as an adult, she could face a life sentence, but as a young person the maximum would be three years.
In addition to facing more severe penalties, young people sentenced as adults also can be publicly identified once all avenues of appeal are exhausted.
The challenges will not affect the convictions, but hearings to decide how the offender will be sentenced will still have to be held.
Connolly said that since her client was under 18 at the time of the offence, she should benefit from legal provisions taking into account that young people may not be mature enough to make fully responsible decisions.The young woman is one of five people charged in Nina's death in April 2005. She and her friend were lured to the fairway of an Edmonton-area golf course on the pretext of attending a bush party, but once they arrived, Nina was raped twice and beaten to death.
The young man who is also going to argue his sentencing options pleaded guilty last December.
Last spring, Joseph Laboucan of Fort St. John, B.C., was convicted of the same crime, but his co-accused Michael Briscoe of Edmonton was acquitted.
The trial of a second teenaged girl was delayed when she fired her lawyer on what was supposed to be the opening day of her trial.
Laboucan is appealing his conviction, while the Crown is appealing Briscoe's acquittal.
Evidence presented at the Laboucan-Briscoe trial was horrific in its brutality. It also exposed an ugly underside of youth culture, with tales of so-called "mall rats" drifting from dine-and-dash jobs in fast-food restaurants to having sex in parking lots and dabbling in the occult.
posted by Capt_Canuck at 4:45 PM
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